PASTOR MIKE'S RESPONSE:
Good to see you...thanks for the DM on Twitter. This is probably the venue of theology I have wrestled with the most only because it demands an answer. Included in your thought process...have you considered that God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Better yet when the time of Christ's return draws near that the very elect will be deceived. Now, we could be dealing with a backlash on eternal security.
Free will, predestination, the elect...How I have struggled and tried to contextualize these thougts for nearly two decades. I know I am of His elect...He chose me...I did not choose Him...and now I must bear fruit.
Keep it up this is the first I have checked in on your blog.
MY REACTION:
Good to hear from you, birds of a feather. I believe the Holy Spirit rewards honest struggle. Yeah, this is a toughie, well worth the wrestle.
If God's Word is Truth, I've concluded that a proper understanding of any issue will not be inconsistent with all the assertions of Scripture concerning it. The truth is found in how everything fits. To find the Truth, look for the fit, the consistency. And you're right; that often takes years.
God can be unwilling to let anyone perish, but I'm not sure one can necessarily conclude from that that everyone will, in fact, be saved. That flies in the face of lots of face-value assertions in Scripture. The logic for that is similar to that required in dealing with "[God] wants all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth" (I Timothy 2:4). God clearly wants all men to be saved -- he wouldn't be a loving God (or have sent Christ) if he didn't -- but the kingdom parables clearly suggest that all men (and women) will not be saved. Look up Matthew 7:21-23, 13:18-23 and consider where the phrase "gnashing of teeth" takes you. The whole concept of Hell mediates against the notion that everyone will be saved in the end.
The deception of the elect: That's an interesting issue, and nothing comes immediately to mind except that God seems to have given us our heads (Note: Romans 1:18-32). That passage talks about God "giving over" people to their evil desires. Clearly God is not giving them over to stuff he endorses. Thus, I conclude, God allows believers to follow their own desires; and in that state, an unwary elect easily could be deceived. God gave us smarts (and the Spirit). He wants us to benefit from them.
Eternal Security: There's no question that from God's perspective, the believers he knows (the elect) are eternally secure (Ephesians 1:4-14); but from our perspectives, living as we are, trapped in time and lacking his eternal perspective, the issue is less clear. That's where faith and trust come in. However, we do know that if we persevere, that perseverance will pay off (Hebrews 10:19-39). That's a promise.
I guess that's why I'm a TheologyFreak. I find biblical investigation fascinating beyond all else because one is always going on the greatest adventure there is, discovering the Mind of God. When you persevere in study and begin thinking beyond theological tradition (WARNING: II John 9; I Corinthians 4:6), one can find reasonable answers to even the toughest questions. That doesn't necessarily make my answers right; but the more I study, the more the good ones seem to fit. When I find my conjectures inconsistent with the face-value assertions of Scripture, I change my conjectures. I never reinterpret Scripture to make things fit. I'm always in submission to Scripture rather than to my own conclusions. My own conclusions and questions like you pose are simply springboards for further study and in our case, perhaps, further fellowship.
Peace^
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That's good stuff! Pretty much the way I see it as well. I am a pastor with a burning passion for the lost so I have a mindset of trying to never giving up on them. But you are correct not all will call on the name of Jesus, and not all that sin fall from His grace.
ReplyDeleteConsidering the tradition I come from I find myself on the outside looking in because I have not found their cut and dry legalistic answers to be correct much less biblical.
FYI: I did not come to Christ until my Freshman year in college. Was saved in a Pentecostal church...and for that will be eternally greatful. Fortunately, I fell in love with the Word and not tradition. Spent hours listening to Charles Stanley, John McCarthur, Chuck Swindol and others that were what I call balanced (with a twist of their own tradition at times). I love the fervor of the Pentcostal/Charismatic movement, but detest the flakiness and off the wall teachings. Never could be in a church that kept it to quiet, but spent time learning because in their quietness I found healthy servings of theological accuracy. Thus I have endeared myself to the Bapticostal movement (LOL).
We are birds of a feather. I'm trying to find a struggling church in this area (Denver, western suburbs) that wants to grow. So far the ones I've talked to are unresponsive. I want to go where Jesus wants me. My home church, the one that bore me in 1969 was painfully unresponsive. As individuals the men in leadership are strong Christian men. As a group, there's something clearly wrong. Christ doesn't want me there or Satan doesn't want me there. As for me now, I'm just relaxing and getting the word out. Prayer might be nice, Mike. Let's stay in touch.
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